Talking to Brandon! Community Conversation Recap
By Shahbano Zaman
The Driving WinTech Community Conversation in Brandon on September 28, 2017, was made possible through the support of event partners: Brandon University, Netset Communication, Leech Printing,Entrepreneurship Manitoba.The panel shared inspiring stories, candid advice and helped us gather valuable data on women in tech.
Tami-Rae Rourke Clements is Partner and COO at Netset Communications, President of the Brandon Chamber of Commerce and a founding members of I-NetLink Wireless. She acknowledged that the tech ecosystem in Brandon is expanding as technology is now touching every industry. Her entry into the tech business included offering to work at a computer store to pay for a printer she couldn’t afford. One busy, understaffed day she helped sell a computer then she met her business partner when selling him a computer. The biggest challenge her company faced was that it grew too fast, while the best thing was being surrounded by incredible people. Her advice to the next generation of women in tech: ‘Surround yourself with the right people and don’t be afraid. If you have an idea but no money, other people can provide it!”
Bonnie Nay-Draper, Business Services Division Manager Entrepreneurship at Manitoba offered advice for new businesses. She noted the value of relationships. When she found herself missing diverse opinions, the kind she found in earlier jobs, she decided to recreate the environment, saying, “When you don’t have access to the resource you become resourceful.” . She formed a lean in group, inspired by Sheryl Sandberg, where women came together to discuss, debate and support each other. As someone who’s had several mentors, she noted that mentors tend to change over the course of one’s career as people grow. Focusing on opportunities versus problems is a personal philosophy of hers, and she counts her diverse network and peer group as her biggest learning opportunity. Her advice to the next generation of women in tech: “Brandon has money and investors – building relationships and trust and sharing one’s ideas is crucial to accessing these investors.” She also advised women to take advantage of their ability to multitask better than men.
Cathy Snelgrove, Founding Partner of Siere, helps people grow and build their businesses. She’s authored several books on the subject of starting a business. She noted there are two types of businesses:
1. Those that understand the old business model is fading
2. Those that ask questions, keeping the inevitable spread of technology in mind
She noted that Manitoba can benefit by seeking local talent and using technology to attract opportunities. Having worked closely with both men and women she noted a difference in how they use mentoring: men jump off the cliff, women worry about the obstacles they might face. Women underestimate their own resourcefulness. Her advice to the next generation of women in tech: “Go for it - figure it out after! Most importantly, support other women along the way.”
Recommendations
Cathy:
Question: Does she see businesses enter the tech landscape from her perspective working for businesses?
She encouraging people to ask: ‘What if you weren’t here? What if your model changes?
Problem in Manitoba: We don’t think broad enough – you don’t think it but you can get hold of resources (people) here. When her company started looking for SEO on their website, they couldn’t find anyone locally initially because didn’t know where to look. Then thought, if I want to find these services elsewhere, where would I look?
There ARE people who code, do SEO in Brandon and do tech stuff that they can use in their business. ‘We get caught in our geography’.
Advice: Get outside. ‘Technology allows us to open up an entire world for our businesses’ – this will bring in more opportunity here
Question: Since Cathy does mentoring herself, how do you approach challenges people face in their businesses and how do you mentor them through that?
She responded by veering that question towards women and how women are different in that respect.
Started her career in a maintenance department, handling equipment and tools. Worked with many men
Later on got both perspectives. Noticed that women ‘have this little thing called perfection that tends to hamper all of us’. We like to be perfect. ‘Before we actually like to go and do something, we like to know that we can do everything involved with it’
Men are different because they are ‘full of shit – in a good way’. Women need to learn that from them. Men have a tendency to believe they can do anything. Gave a lovely example of jumping off a cliff. Men will gladly leap with no thought and women will worry about the rocks and trees and branches at the bottom that they MIGHT hit. Unlike women who think about all the things that can go wrong, men have a belief that they can get themselves out of anything, and ‘women have a tendency to not believe in that’ and ‘yet they can!’ there are very few challenges that ever come in front of a woman that they can’t figure out – they are very resourceful’ but ‘they lack that belief’. Women are more conscious and we ‘let ourselves down a little bit’ because we don’t take the jump – yea I may get a nick, cut or bruise but I’m going to be okay! THAT is the hurdle when mentoring women
Advice: They need to recognize that they are amazing and need to be their own cheerleaders. They handle education, kids, school, families, and aging parents flawlessly but expect perfection from ourselves. ‘Go for it and figure it out after’ – if you want to start a business, go start it. Don’t wait till you get all your education, because people run out of time. ‘There is never a better time than now to do the things you want to do’.
‘If you’re trying to be prepared for everything, you will never be prepared. Learn to jump’
If you want to talk to people, pick up the phone. They worst they will do is hang up! It won’t hurt you, you won’t fall apart. If you do this enough, ‘the more full of shit’ you’ll become – which is a good thing. Be like men, they are fearless with some of this stuff, they don’t know, but they do it anyway. ‘Don’t get in your own way’
Tamie:
Question: Thoughts on the current state of the tech ecosystem in Brandon?
There ISN’T a big tech ecosystem in Brandon from a ‘primary core’ perspective. People move to larger urban centers in search for jobs and business owners also reach out to tech community in these urban centers / they contract them in these urban centers
Technology is now touching every industry – ecosystem is expanding. E.g is the egg industry – south west Manitoba is known for it (the industry has incorporated tech in the form of GPS, monitoring fuel etc. really using tech) and so everyone working in these industries is touching tech
Question: How did you get started in the tech business?
She started in pharmacy, bought a computer, got a loan then found out she needed a printer couldn’t afford it then! It was $500 so she went back to the store and told them she needed a printer and asked if she could work there on the weekends (answering phones) to pay for it. They agreed. So she found herself spending her Saturday’s answering phones in a computer store. One day it was busy, and they were understaffed. She helped a couple and ended up selling a computer to them that’s how things took off for her.
Lesson: EVERYTHING is an opportunity. She met her business partner Charlie (in the audience) by selling him a computer. Got together with a group and passion and evolved over the years and wanting to learn.
Question: When you were growing your companies, what were the biggest challenges your faced during that, and biggest wins?
Challenge: grew too fast. She and mentor (Robbie) were fearless and full of shit ‘lets go’. Jumped off the cliff and went ‘what do we do now? But we did survive!
Best: We were able to surround ourselves with people like Robbie – attracted people like her and wouldn’t be where they are now without ppl like Robbie. Experience the shift from being overjoyed that amazing people wanted to work for them and they could afford them to being choosy to see who can fit into and adapt well into their culture – things took off from there and largely because of surrounding oneself with amazing people. ‘you are not perfect, you never will be, but get as many people around you that are close to perfect and you’ll be amazing.’
Bonnie:
Question: Resources and support in your career (person or mentor)?
Due to her varied career paths she had more than one person supporting her (egg industry, banking, account industry, government). Encountered people to model AND those not to model
Before joining the government she encountered novel thinking and new perspectives – missed it when joining the government in Brandon so decided she would create it herself in her own way ‘when you don’t have access to the resource you become resourceful’
Called people she knew or wanted to know because she thought them interesting and they formed their own ‘lean in’ group, inspired by Cheryl Sandberg’s Lean In book! The other panelists are part of said group including come in the audience. They get together and talk about everything and while they don’t always agree, they respect each other – have good debate. When sending out this request to these women, she did not know how they would respond, considering she did not know some of them. The response was a resounding ‘Yes! I can’t believe you asked me!’ and she ‘I can’t believe you said yes!’
LESSON: Seek people out! You want to connect with them and they WANT to connect with you.
Regarding mentors and networks ‘Create those peer groups that are going to help you grow your thinking, give you a different perspective and challenge your thinking and get you out of the narrow box of ‘it can’t be done in my business’ or it can’t be done in Brandon’’ – look at what’s possible and look to people in different industries and different perspectives to help you with that.
Build that network, continue to grow along and don’t be afraid if you grow past someone. That’s okay. You can have them in your life in a different capacity and find more – networks will change overtime
Question: You’ve been a part of many teams, what was your biggest learning opportunity? Be open to different perspectives, surround yourself with people smarter than you. Capable, experienced good people who share your values and give them the tools to do what you need to.
In peer group, make it diverse. Culture, background, perspectives. Travel is a good opportunity. Globally connect to different journals, newspapers, people etc.
Personally, took an online MBA program ‘turning point’ people in her courses from all over the world. Got a different perspective on global business and leadership.
Be a sponge, be open. Take opportunities, say yes! You are influenced by the people you surround yourself with so ‘pick your peers wisely, pick your mentors wisely and continue to grow’ with those.’
1. Advice for next generation of women coming up in technology?
Tami
Great opportunity and time, global plate, ‘you can do anything anywhere’, ‘work for anyone anywhere’, ‘educate yourself anywhere’. Its interesting: Her company’s market is NOT Brandon – they sell everywhere but Brandon.
ADVICE: Just because you live in Brandon doesn’t mean you have to sell in Brandon. If you have an idea but no money, don’t worry – other people have the money. They may also have the idea but don’t want to do the heavy lifting anymore – ‘they’ll sure want to help lift you up’.
You can eventually pay back your shareholders because you don’t need them anymore. Happened with her company – thank you so much for your help but we don’t need your money any more (but not sure if she can/wanted to disclose that information). They will be proud of you and still mentor you
Brandon community is known for that – it’s very supportive. Ask for what you need and they’ll provide it to you (room, food).
‘Surround yourself with the right people and don’t be afraid to do it.’
Cathy
Women have a tendency to tear each other down. Make a decision to support other women. Support others and you’ll get support. We all win when one of us wins.
Tamie stepped in to share a personal story: A woman was almost not hired in her company because men were scared they would not get along because both are strong headed. She was actually in the audience and Tamie’s mentor and close friend. Two strong women who support each other become a force.
Bonnie chimed in: it’s not a small piece of pie. If you work, support, challenge and build each other you can ‘build that pie’.
Quote, possible Warren Buffet, the reason he was so successful was because he was only competing with 50% of the population. Time to elevate the other 50%
Bonnie
Speaking of investors, there is an idea that there isn’t money in Brandon – its there but its quiet. And that’s where relationships, trust and sharing ideas come into play. There are many venture capitalists in Brandon. They will not go seeking people and businesses to invest in, you need to make the effort and build relationships and trust. If they like you and trust you, they will invest in you.
We have a tendency to get tied down in the daily tasks that need to get done. Don’t forget to lift your head up and network and expose yourself to different people and thinking.
Women have an advantage over men because of their multitasking abilities. Her sis in law, senior software engineer in Korea moved to Canada and 2-3 guys replaced her role. – They can’t keep up with everything she did singlehandedly!
Tamie chimes in: Men throw balls further, women can multitask!
Moderator: The stigma of being in a small community is that you feel that if you have to ‘DO’ anything, you have to move to Winnipeg. Truth is you can work from anywhere – even your home or a small community!
Open to questions from audience. There were none so moderator asked more:
Question: What keeps you up at night regarding your career?
Tamie: Has no regrets so not kept up at night by any of those. Very careful with her decisions.
Bonnie: No regrets but is kept up at night. Active brain that needs yoga/meditation to wind down and shut off
Question: What kind of resources are available in Brandon that someone entering in the tech industry should know about?
Bonnie: Start at ‘Entrepreneurship Manitoba’ - generalists that help startups and can connect you to specialist organizations as well
Tamie: Innovation Alley in Winnipeg – huge facility where you can make things, program. Investors come in and its great
Bonnie: Innovation Alley collaborates with ‘North Forge’ now and they help startups!
Question from audience: What’s your next big project?
Cathy: Her business is near Brandon. Work in Canada and US and their biggest client is in Denver Colorado. She and business partner have been working on understanding how to virtually do what they do – interfacing with clients at a distance
Bonnie: Merged a few branches in the government. Recently launched a way for companies to register their business online. Deliver to Winnipeg and rural areas and looking into ways of offering all their services irrespective of bandwidth and technology so its equitable across Manitoba
Tamie: Company did very well and she has more time on her hands. Starting a new company investing in women in technology (primary women, not exclusively) and also some consulting do help midway businesses incorporate technology (Rourke Group)
Question: Regarding women being perfectionists, what are some setbacks... (inaudible in recording – question was emotional and choked up because the subject had personal significance for her)
Cathy: Career trajectory had been a smooth and straight upward line till she started her first company. First 2 years were ‘hell.’ They will support you but don’t expect friends and family to buy your product. Was all set up but phone didn’t ring. Went deeper into debt and had pride so wouldn’t ask for help or admit failure. Had an opportunity to go to work a proper big job earning 6 figures. Had a sobering moment in the middle of the night where she realized it was too easy to move and she didn’t want to run away. She’s a smart girl and always has been. Looked at her bank statements – called the head hunter and said no to the job. THAT was pivotal and she started doing things differently. Making bold steps, calling people on the phone (reference to her earlier comment), going for it. You have to sit there and face it down. Some things will test the heck out of you – everyone goes through it. Either you let yourself crumble or you pick yourself up and say ‘I’m better than this’
Tammie: Had a whole staff walk out of her because she was not the leader she needed to be. She learned how to do that. She had to internalize it and realise it was her. That was a valuable and difficult lesson.